Starting in February this year, when the car was 15 months old, I started getting the 2-1 rollout 'lurch' - variant 1 on this site.  Of course I didn't know it as this at the time, but when I found this site I felt so much better! At least I knew I wasn't alone, and the info on this site has put me in SUCH a powerful position with the dealer, as I could speak in terms they understood, quote TSB numbers, and so on - they instantly recognised the problem when I first raised it. They found this website very interesting!  Actually the service team at my dealer have been superb throught the many attempts at fixing it. 

After four attemps involving new software levels over a 9 month period, specific ways of resetting the adaptations, speaking with Jaguar tech support and so on, three weeks ago I finally had the gearbox replaced.  500 miles now and it's still fine, which is positive since each attempt at fixing it with new software caused it to be fine for about 200-300 miles, then it began again. Lets hope this fix is permanent now.  I gather that *lots* of gearboxes have been replaced.  My dealer has done several, so multiply that up across the country / Europe...

Mike 

2.7D SE
United Kingdom

What this means is premature rear brake pad failure is normal, as no doubt is written off rear disks and associated poor fuel consumption due to the permanently dragging rear brakes. I wonder if mine will make its first service at 15,000 miles before the pads wear completely and metal to metal contact results.

Make of this what you will, but for an 11 week old car with 5000 miles on the clock I think it's a very poor situation. Guess I should have bought a Lexus / BMW / Mercedes after all!!!

Anybody have any suggestions as to where I go now to get this fixed?
Wonder if trading standards will be interested?

Kevin (S-Type Diesel SE)

The problems outlined on your web site strike a cord, so far I have been back to a dealer once to complain of harsh shifts particularly when setting off with a cold engine (sometimes accompanied with a restricted power warning), they flashed the gear box, while this brought some improvement I still considered the performance of the box to be disappointing in terms of lack of smoothness in the lower gears, up or down shift. Of course such judgement is subjective and I confess it is not based on a like for like comparison. My bench mark is my wife’s 1.3 Toyota Yaris (Automatic); the Yaris in terms of smoothness of shifts is the better car to drive.

Since the Dealer carried out the repair the box has become progressively worse and symptoms “Lurch 1 & 2” are becoming fairly regular occurrences, so the car will be back to the Dealer in the near future, unfortunately the experiences reported on your web site do not fill me with confidence regarding Jaguar’s/ZF’s ability to fix the problem.

Has anyone reported a permanent solution or is the answer to cut and run?

1. Shouldn’t the re-flash work after only one re-flashing?  Why is it that mine is coming back after roughly 300 miles?
2. Do I need to tell them to do it a certain way?  
3. What recourse do I have with JaguarUSA?  Any chance that they’ll actually swap out the transmission after 38K miles?  
   

I have a 2004 S-type diesel with  the ZF box and it has got "The Lurch". Not all the time,occasionally. My main dealer is one of the good ones and they do try as much as they can. I have e-mailed Jaguar on the subject----- no reply to date. I have e-mailed ZF on the subject-------no reply to date. This motor was and is an expensive piece of equipment, it cost me a lot of my retirement savings, and I am not a happy man.  So, come on Jaguar, inform us of any progress being made to resolve the matter.   Regards Brian

Follow up :

Please feel free to use my  e-mail on your web site. Since the last re-flash last week I  have been to France and gave the car a lot of hard work, It never did "the lurch" once. Now i'm back home doing short local trips with it it lurches occasionally.

Follow up :

There have been developments with "The Lurch" on my S type. Very expensive developments! My main dealer (as I said, one of the good ones) have had the car back a few times in the last 10 days and it ran oO.K. for them until Thursday morning. Out on a test drive with the engineer and the gearbox threw a fit. Result----- they found a wire in the control module corroded through. All credit to Jaguar, wiring AND gearbox replaced under warranty. So for the time being I am a happy man. Regards Brian

Transmission
Since new the gearbox has ‘hunted’ at around 30 to 55mph which is very noticeable when cold. It feels like the gearbox is struggling to change up or down. These symptoms disappear after 30 mins when the car has warmed up however until then it is uncomfortable and there is a definite noise associated with this. I haven’t experienced the lurch.

I reported the problem at the first service and the gearbox was remapped (flashed) which didn’t make a difference. At second service (May-05) I reported the problem again. This time the workshop manager took the car for a test drive and couldn’t spot the problem (probably because the car was warm). He them accompanied me on a test drive but again the car behaved as it was warm. However we talked through the symptoms experience and result was diagnosed as a faulty torque converter which is apparently a known problem. This will be replaced, under warranty, this week. Hopefully this will cure the problem.

Brakes
At the second service (21K) the rear brake pads and discs were reported as worn and need replacement in 1 to 2K miles and quoted £400 to replace ! I find this totally unreasonable. These items should last 40K+. Now for the comparison with my 2001 s-type – no problem with brake pad / disc wear, the car went beyond 30K without reports of wear. I have driven the 2003 car in exactly the same way over the same commuting journey.

Tyres
Again at second service the rear tyres reported as needing replacement with approx 2K miles life (i.e. 23K since new). On the 2001 car I never replaced the tyres at part exchange time at 33K miles there was still 3mm all round.

Fuel Consumption
The 2003 car is slightly worse that the 01 car 27 vs. 28mpg. I would have expected an improvement, especially with the 6 speed gearbox (previous car was 5 speed auto).

Regards
Tim
Jaguar S-Type 3.0SE Auto MY2003

I have been featured on "The Lurch" before. I am in Greece and have a 2003 S-Type 2.5 Executive. I have experienced most of the problems listed. Most of them I dismissed as non-problems until I read about others having them also, in which case it elevated my awareness.

I bought the car in July 2003 for 75.000 euro. I now have 23.000 km and the car is worth about 33.000 euro. Not a bad return on investment.

The dealer has replaced the transmission (early stages of the lurch, car was less than 1 month old with 550 km on it, where transmission fault light came on. Since then, I believe they have disconnected it.) They have replaced the parking brake pump (again, early stages of ownership - within the first 2 weeks - as the parking brake light was coming on as i was driving).

At the first service which I was forced to do at 14.000 km because of worn brake pads, they charged me 780 euro. Now, 9.000 km later, I am due for another service since again the brake pads are worn, the lurch is ever present, but, I have found a solution.

I have purchased a small Clio which serves two purposes.

1. Saves wear and tear on the Jag which in any case is extensive and expensive.
2. After driving a Clio, no matter what the Jag does is a step up.
3. Maybe with the money I save on gas and service, I can make up some of the money I lost on depreciation of the Jag.

Good Luck to all.
First and last Jag

May 2005

Hi,

I recently purchased a 3ltr Stype SE automatic - unfortunately the car seems to suffer from the 'gear-box' lurch that I understand is a common fault. The main problem is when pulling away and the transition between the first couple of gears..

I've had the car in at jaguar for the software upgrades etc, but this doesnt seem to have cured the problem.

Ive read various other posts about this fault, but as they were from some time back I was wondering if there had been any recent developments as to how to fix this problem!?

Any help would be great - thanks in advance!

----------------------------------------------

I bought a 2.7ltr Diesel ex demonstrator sport not long ago, and it started to lurch after a week of having it - but it manifested itelf only when slowing down slowly to a halt (say at the lights), and the box tried to find first gear.

I rang my dealer and they took it in 'to reset the adaptions'. After they'd done this, it's been fine.

----------------------------------------------

I have a 2002 S Type and also had the dreaded lurch. As well as re-programming the gearbox software my local dealer also gave it a 'gearbox flush' and this solved the problem (350 miles on and fingers still crossed).

It maybe worth checking if your dealer did this as it is apparantly what Jaguar recommend in their Technical Service Bulletin.

Hope this helps.

Mike

My S type is out of warranty this September, the gear box still clunks as it
changes down to from 2nd to 1st as does other peoples S types, thus I can
only assume that this is a common fault with them.

The dealer insists that (after talking to Jaguar UK) there's nothing wrong
wit the car, and, that this noise I hear is the natural noise I would hear
as the gear box operates normally. Personally I think that's a crock of
S**T.

So, here's another bit of interesting information. I have found that whilst
driving normally, say at 30mph, if I tap the accelerator with my foot, there
is a definite clunk in the drive train, it sounds as if it's coming from the
same area under the car. Is this all part of the same problem I ask myself?

So, why did I mention 'internet lists' in the subject??

Well, it's my feeling that lists like this are a gathering place for people
with problem cars (mostly) I know that not everyone on here has a problem
car, but I bet a reasonable proportion do.

Why aren't jaguar doing anything about this gearbox problem, again, my
feeling is that there isn't enough of a problem to fix. After all, to them,
if say 0.1% of all the cars they sell have a problem, does it warrant a
recall? The simple answer must be no.

The problem area on my car seems to be the gearbox to drive shaft, they've
(the dealer) worked on this area a total of 4 times, and the last time they
carried out work on the car they fitted a different flange (so they say)
with tighter tolerances. Now that lasted 9 days, before there was a sudden
change, where the old problem returned. It didn't wear out, it failed. Now
ever since the 2nd visit to the dealer, something changed underneath the car
as when driving at 40/50mph I can hear a bearing noise. The dealers head
mechanic said it was tyre noise, but having spent a good part of my life in
engineering (large diesels, pumps, motors and CCGT) I know a bearing noise
when I hear one.

My hope is that this posting will end up in the archives and at some point
be useful to other S type drivers/owners. Sadly I won't be in that group as
I'm, getting shot of what I consider to be a bad car. Would I buy another
Jaguar? No, the whole episode of owning this S type has left me with a bad
taste in my mouth, and I do mean THIS S type.

So, I have seven weeks of S type ownership left, my new car is on order and
a deal has been agreed for part-ex on my S.

You're a good group of people with a passion for a good looking car, I just
wish my car was up to it.

Cheers,

Andy

3.0 clunker.

I own a 2003 S-Type-R that is currently experiencing both variants of the lurch outlined in your website. The transmission has been flashed twice now using TSB S307-17 but it comes back after maybe 300 miles or so. I’m taking it in for a 3rd flashing in 2 weeks. My dealer is of course saying “They all do that” and that it’s “a characteristic of the car”. I’m asking for a new transmission but they’re basically telling me to get lost. My questions are these:

• Shouldn’t the re-flash work after only one re-flashing? Why is it that mine is coming back after roughly 300 miles?
  
• Do I need to tell them to do it a certain way?
  
• What recourse do I have with JaguarUSA? Any chance that they’ll actually swap out the transmission after 38K miles?

Anyway, any advice you may have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for creating such an informative website for all of us who are being ignored by Jaguar.

Clayton

1> When first driving in the morning, the engine and car surges when trying to hold a constant speed around 35-40 mph. It seems the torque converter is can't make up its mind to lock or unlock.

2> My passenger headlight is adjusting higher than the driver's side. The result is that I'm lighting the left side of the road much further away than the right; i.e. road signs, etc.

3> Finally, I was also having the lurch issue and the dealership flashed my ECM/transmission and the issue has gone away.

Good luck,
Eric

NEW XJ

I have the new XJ with this gearbox and have had the lurching problem. It is definitely a software problem. There have been a number of software releases to fix the problem. I have just had the latest version installed and the change is now superb - no lurching and a seamless change. Your dealer will be able to do very easily.

Hi,

I found your site via roadfly.com and think it's very informative. I have just purchased a 2003 XK8 that has Variant 1 and Variant 2 of the Lurch. When I bought the car, the head mechanic at my Jaguar dealership (who is very honest) acknowledged the Lurch and said that there is a solution involving the installation of a device, but that he didn't think that solution had worked very well.

He mentioned that Jaguar is supposed to come out with a software solution in the next month or so to solve this problem. Is that what you have heard, or is it wishful thinking?

Regards,
Sean

Some threads on the BMW E60 Forums confirming that some BMW E60 (new 5 series) and E63/64 (New 6 Series) owners experience identical symptons with their ZF 6HP26 Gearbox to those outlined on this website - and that BMW has released a TSB to cover the LURCH with an IDENTICAL description (highlighted) of the symptoms as outlined on this website: see ZF Gearbox Lurch :

BMW TSB - SIB240305 bulletin:

SUBJECT
Harsh 2-1 Downshift

MODEL
E60 (545i); E63/64 645(Ci/Cic) with 6HP26 up to 04/05

CAUSE
EGS software.

CORRECTION
On a customer complaint basis only, reprogram/recode complete vehicle using SSS with CIP on-line update 17.01, or higher.

Important:
Transmission temperature must remain below 50 deg C and trans shifter must be placed in P position prior to the start of CIP programming

LandRover Forum :

We've had our loaded SE since December '04. We've put over 13K miles on it.

Love the truck and have no regrets. actually convinced 3 friends to buy one as well.

Ever since taking delivery we notice 2 annoyances with the truck.

1 - transmission jerks when coming to almost a stop and then going. You're slowing down and coming almost to a stop, but not quite (like at a stop sign), then take the foot off the brake pedal and hit the gas pedal (doesn't matter how hard or soft you step on it). The tranmission jerks. almost feels like it down shifts.
can reproduce the occurance at will. dealer has seen the problem, but has not been able to do anything about it. Since it is a minor annoyance, we'll have them look at it again at the next scheduled service.

anyone else having this problem?

ZF Transmission problems - FULL webpage outlining Gearbox faults

After a year and a half, the dealer made me a deal on an 05. With the 05, none of the "lurch" symtoms, but only 8,000 miles. Do have the high revs though.

Your car is driving like new, like all of ours do following a TCM reprogramming, because the car is now relearning its adaptive strategy.

Its a very disappointing problem (well all the tranny-related issues are) simply because of poor programming.

Btw i talked to my Jag dealer and he said they are aware of that gearbox prob and how to fix it for the S-Type since 2003.....

Now i have to get the XK8 coupe of my wife to the dealer to get the lurching gearbox fixed - i drove her car yesterday and this problem really sucks...

(It must be said that everything else on the car is perfect - my only problem to date was a slight rattle but on checking this was due to a pen I'd left in the drivers door pocket - d'oh!!. Glad I didn't go to the dealers with that!!)

I haven't had any comebacks since the last one though, and nothing from Jaguar about continued problems

Holding my breath

Ergebnis: Beim XKR ist das Problem behoben - beim XK8 nicht - beide wurden neu programmiert

Kann es sein, daß es beim Kompressormodel geht und beim Sauger nicht ? Da doch Getriebe und Motor neu programmiert werden ?

The tech reiterated the info that DT provided after you forwarded him (or her?) my post: Jaguar is aware of and working on the problem; it only affects certain cars with the 4.2 V-8; the reflash is a temporary measure; there will be a final fix sometime in the future.

This is not a subtle problem. If you have it, you KNOW it, and so does anyone
who drives the car. It's my understanding that a very slight thump as the
transmission disengages at a stop is intrinsic to the design of the new
six-speed, and therefore normal. It's all spelled out in those early posts.

To continue with the nit-pick, I also find that they make a groaning noise when the brakes are partially applied when pulling slowly into the garage or parking spot. Not a very befitting sound for such a fine luxury car.

By the end of the day, I had adjusted to the lurch - I was just braking a litle
more firmly in the few feet of motion.

A few weeks later, I borrowed an '03 R for a weekend. This one didn't have the problem.

Lo and behold, the annoying gearbox clunk has returned.
Yesterday nothing... This morning nothing... Yet driving home after a rather
crap day at work, and clunk between what I think is 2nd to 1st. It's just
as bad as before.

It makes me wonder why I traded in a perfectly good C5 estate for a car that
has a repetitive gearbox problem, and eats brake pads AND discs like they
were a snack...

So, it looks like I'll be back to the dealers on Monday...

Even though it's still under warranty, this is hassle I don't need from a
car that's 2 1/2 years old with only 16k miles on it.

Has anyone on here actually had this problem, and received a long term fix??

Andy
3.0se

That's just it... I'M NOT EASLIY PLEASED!! In fact i'm far from pleased. A car
with just over 16,000 miles on it, and it's suffering from various problems,
some of which seem to be hard for 'Jaguar' to fix.

I park my car at my place of work each day, it's the only Jaguar in the car
park, the rest are a mix of BMWs, Audis, Mercs etc.. All of them less than 3
years old, yet the only one going back and forth to the dealers is the Jaguar.

The C5 i had was build better, ran better, but was boaring to drive, that's
why i returned to Jaguar. Maybe i should have gone for the 3.0 X type with a
manual box, i duno, but one things for sure, i won't be looking to trade for
another 'auto box jag' until they get it right.

Cheers,
Andy 3.0 clunker

ich habe vor einiger Zeit hier mal über die gleichen Bremsprobleme berichtet. Damals habe ich in Kronenberg (ich war auf dem Weg von Bielefeld nach Frankfurt) viel Geld für neue Scheiben und Belege bezahlt und auch nichts zurück bekommen.
Mein Auto, ein S-Type R hatte zu der Zeit ca. 18000 km gelaufen.
Das Getriebeproblem hatte meiner auch, ist aber behoben.Das geht aber nicht durch ein Softwareupdate, sondern nur durch eine kompl. Neuprogrammierung des Getriebes durch Mitarbeiter von ZF.Das ist in meiner Werkstatt bei mehreren Fahrzeugen am selben Tag gemacht worden. In dieser Sache war meine Werkstatt wirklich gut. Aber warum mein Auto zu wenig Leistung hat wurde bisher leider noch nicht gefunden.

Rough Translation of third paragraph into English:

I had the same transmission problem, which is now gone. This was achieved not through a Software Upgrade, but rather through a complete re-programming of the transmission by a ZF mechanic. There were other cars at my Dealer that were re-programmed on the same day. But, I still haven't found out why my car is down on power.

The local dealer had quite a few of these cars to fix and most of them were
fixed with the fluid change.

Bulletin S211-04.

The first fix was a new type of oil to the steering. Didn't help, changed the
noise a bit though. To cure the problem something bigger was replaced (steering rack?), I don't remember the details. That helped the problem for that season.

No the noise is back (-17C, dry air, quite a bit of snow) and it has negative
effect on my blood pressure on such a otherwise quiet and smooth car.

Does anyone know if there has been new cures to the problem during the last year or two? Does the oil in the steering to be replaced frequently to keep the issue away?

The car is already out of warranty since July 2005 but it's obviously something that they didn't really fix for good. The car has only 35,000 km / 21,700 miles on the clock.

(BTW I've had the fluid replacement as well and the noise is back.)

I'll try the fuel injector cleaner idea...couldn't hurt.

Can anyone whose rear pads have worn out before their fronts let me know
and I'm also interested in what response if any other owners get when
they speak to their dealers about this problem. It seems that until
people start complaining this will remain a low priority at Jaguar.

Not engine or gearbox related, same whine at same roadspeed in
different gears.

Update:

Car back from its first service (15,000 miles). I asked them to see
if they could trace the source of the whine and they've ordered me
a new diff under warranty.

Not the first case they've heard of, they say.

My dealer has two other S-Types coming in for new diffs as well -
is there a known issue here?

Anybody else had less life out of their rear pads than the fronts?

Anybody else had this problem?

I went one size larger and got Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3's (245/45/17). What a difference, no noise (even over 90mph, Texas roads) and they stick like glue. They are maximum performance summer, bad news in snow, but not an issue in much of Texas. Rain performance is excellent.

Curious what kind of mileage and types of tires other S-Type owners are using?